Entry 1 from 13.10.2013, 12:25

Name:Taweakame
Theme:Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Anybody else think there is familiarity between Street Girl and Rebel Rebel?


Entry 2 from 13.10.2013, 15:55

Name:Suzie C
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I kinda know what you mean but I think it sounds more like Hendrix. Street Girl was recorded by the Pretty Things trio of Wally Waller (bass/vocals) Dick Taylor (guitar) Jon Povey (drums) and everybody knows the Jimmy Hendrix Experience was a three piece too.

Entry 3 from 15.10.2013, 11:20

Name:Taweakame
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Don't know if you have seen this. But it can't hurt to post it again even if it has already been posted before.

A very upbeat version of this little cracker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkjU5ctNEU8




Entry 4 from 16.10.2013, 13:45

Name:Pete Deville
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Yeah not bad but they haven't quite masters the sixties tuning

Entry 5 from 16.10.2013, 16:40

Name:Taweakame
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:'sixties tuning' ???
Is that what the Residents do?

Entry 6 from 16.10.2013, 18:29

Name:Pete Deville
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I think the important difference here is the early Electric Banana were trying desperately to be in tune.

Entry 7 from 16.10.2013, 23:04

Name:Sergio
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:In tune or not I much prefer the 1967 original, more soul, more clarity and a lot of that has to do with Jon Poveys drumming. He played drums on all the early Electric Banana stuff Alexander included, a well underrated performer on the drums.

Entry 8 from 17.10.2013, 00:29

Name:Suzie C
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Im with you on that one Sergio

Entry 9 from 17.10.2013, 00:54

Name:Brigadier Strangeways
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:This is another offering from the Waller/Taylor/Povey combo from the same Electric Banana session, only this time Jon handles the lead vocals.

P.S. sorry about the video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA9n46XqRZw

Entry 10 from 17.10.2013, 10:49

Name:Taweakame
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Well I never got a chance to see Electric Banana, Mores the shame. Live and Studio Performances are different potatoes. I Love Electric Banana. Quite a few of those tunes are available without vocals so I have been karaokeing with them in the shower for years.

Entry 11 from 17.10.2013, 19:49

Name:Brigadier Strangeways
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I couldn't agree more. I think the Electric banana output is great. I think part of it's charm is it's complete lack of sophistication especially the early ones. I get the impression that the band had quite a low regard for these recordings. I remember reading in an interview somewhere (I think it was Wally) saying something like, and rather disparagingly too, that they used to make an album in a day in De Wolfe's small rudimentary demo studio. It must have been a bit of a culture shock for them after spending ages making albums in Abbey Road. Did they think they would never be held to account for this stuff? Luckily for the rest of us, they were rumbled. Long live the Electric Banana.

Entry 12 from 26.10.2013, 03:53

Name:Eric
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Pretty (intended!)sure Twink (NOT Mr. Povey) played Drums on BOTH the Banana & Philippe Debarge Studio versions of the 'Alexander' tracks Sergio....perhaps SOME-ONE 'in the know'
could confirm final call on that one??.....

Entry 13 from 02.11.2013, 14:54

Name:Wally Waller
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Hi Eric, I'm afraid Sergio is right: Jon Povey played on all the Electric Banana recordings apart from the last one (Return Of The Electric Banana), and that was another 'Drummer Greenwood' ... 'Chico' this time. 'Return Of The Electric Banana' was not so much Electric Banana/Pretty Things, but more Electric Banana/Fallen Angels. 'The Fallen Angels' was Phil and I's Swiss Folly (we recorded an album in Geneva in 1977) that turned into a complete debacle, but while the band was still vaguely together, we did an Electric Banana session. Oddly enough this album contains two of my favourite Electric Banana tracks - 'Take Me Home'
http://javier_granados.youtube.video4me.net/user/Javier_Granados/play/Ab7Fx4kZLrY/Electric_Banana_-aka-_The_Pretty_Things:_Take_Me_Home_'69 )

and 'I'll Do My Stuff'
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJBn0ZVmgUw ).

The audio on the latter is so quiet, it doesn't do it justice. The personel were Phil May, Wally Waller, Mickey Finn, Bill Lovelady Brian Johnson and Chico Greenwood.

Anyway, back to the point. Yes I know Twink was playing it in the movie ('What's Good For The Goose'), but all the music for the movie was recorded months before (as part of the pre-production process), and by that time we shot the movie on location in Southport, Twink was the band's drummer. For some reason Skip was never part of the Electric Banana setup. If you check out the movie you will notice that Twink doesn't appear to be comfortable at all miming to some of the tracks - things like the roll round the kit in the intro of 'Alexander' are less than convincing. It's classic Povey drumming, and miming to another drummer's track is not easy.

There is so much mis-information about the Electric Banana, not least from the covers of the De Wolfe albums themselves. For instance 'Street Girl' was from our first EB session, but you'd never guess it, as it appears on the second album, along with others. On that first session we were obliged to do a couple of songs from another writer called Peter Reno. We were given a couple of demos of a bloke playing a piano and singing - they were total crap! Phil said 'There's no f*****g way I'm singing that pile of s**t'. We had to virtually re-invent the songs, and they bear very little resemblance to the songs that we were initially given. Quite frankly it's diabolical that we didn't get a co-writing credit. Finally, it was decided that I would sing 'Street Girl' - (my first time singing the lead in a studio), and Jon would sing 'Love, Dance and Sing'. In all honesty I think Jon got the real short straw. It appears that De Wolfe has managed to conjure up two albums out of our first EB session, by adding two more Peter Reno songs (played by God knows who? And pretending it's us, by conveniently failing to mention that they( the songs - 'Free Love' and 'Cause I'm A Man') have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with us. As my late father in-law once remarked on sampling his first course in a restaurant 'If this is chicken soup, then it must have been through it on stilts' - I feel those songs fit into the same sort of category, any notion that they should be called Electric Banana tracks is complete b******s, and any resemblance to such is purely coincidental. Similarly some of the notes on personel are equally erroneous and misleading.

Just thought I'd clear all that up.

Entry 14 from 03.11.2013, 04:17

Name:Eric
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:WOW!!....the GREAT Mr. Waller 'addressing' ME once again....the last time we 'conversed' a bit was the Bands appearance @ Lil' Stevens Cave-Stomp NYC two friggin weeks before the 'End of Innocence' (ie: 9/11)& we discussed the 'fresh' acetate of 'Debarge' that Mike Stax had jus sent me (about (2) weeks before we flew-out to see y'all....I told you the Music was BRILLIANT even in it's 'tinny'/scratchy' format & you were pretty 'jazzed-up' about re-visting the Album as you had not heard it since Debarge took it back to France etc (ie: about32 Years!!)& THANK YOU for the -re-Master you & Phil (& Jon??) did on it (some of our FAV' Stuff you guys ever made!!) anyways next night you GRACIOUSLY invited Laura & I on-stage (Night 2).....she went up & was CUTE & full of PT's 'THRILL' (ie:grabbed the Mic' & shouted 'We came all the way from California cause the Pretty Fuckin' RAWK'!!) Place went nuts....so job well done huh!!??...=ALL TIME FUN for us....so THANX once AGAIN!!... ..

Now that lil' blather aside (trying NOT to come-off like a 14 year old urinating 'Beatle Girl' at the Sullivan Show' etc...)....'Good on ya Sir'' for the 'correction' I stand humbled.......first let me begin by saying I didn't think I could possibly become a BIGGER Jon Povey Fan (if you've ever reviewed my Hyper-Ranting concerning his Power-Drone 'Combat Attack Organ' presentation during your 1968/69 Acid Jam Band Phase on this thread...well lets jus' say you'd understand!!)....but ya jus' did the (seemingly) IMPOSSIBLE w/your confirmation he played on the 'Alexander' tracks......the EB' Album (Blows Your Mind') asterisked Twink as the Drummer on the track & as far as Debarge....I assumed (TERRIBLE huh'??)that because of those WONDERFUL 'Rolls' that it was Twink 'again'....now did Twink play w/you guys at all on Debarge#1 or was it just you, Jon, Phil & Vic' playin' on Debarge?????....) & I actually once mentioned to Alan Lakey (STUPIDLY in retrospect)that I thought Jon seemed to be a fine 'Beat' Drummer (kinda' like Charlie & Ringo) but not really a Great DRUMMER (ie: Palmer, Ginger, Skip, Moon etc....)....as I didn't re-call listening to alot of Drum-Roll type style from Jon during your guys 'Fenmen' days??......Alan replied that he thought Jon was an EXCELLENT Drummer & if that is him on the EB' & Debarge stuff....well those ROLLS are MAGIC!!....& I did hear HIM behind the kit on a 'boot' recording of the track in Europe from about 2004/5'ish when you guys 'tributed' the E.B.' & Jon did play the rolls & I thought....NICE Job there JP'!!........anyways....quickly back to 'Debarge' (in my opine the Album is the KOOLEST 'Boot' project this Kat' has listened too.....) could you PLEASE tell us some more about the 'You Might Even Say' track....it seems you guys kinda' think of it as a bit of a 'Throw-away' & I see it as the KOOLEST 'One-Off' track you guys ever made.....so different, innovative....with so MUCH Music (ie: Guitar fills, percussion, Miracas, loops,Spacey Parlour Organ & those HARMONIES & that Droney/Powerful Star trek meets the Evil 'Borg' feedback thing at Fade-out.....=FUUUCCCCKKKK!!.....it's jus Magical to me....jus' so different & AMAZINGLY Charming....was this YOUR 'Monster' Wally??....wanted to ask you about this pup' since 2001~~....

Also.....how did you ever end up playin' Drums yourself on that 'T-Rex' clip??....

ok....getting close to ending here (Hey....How Many shots does a Guy get ya know....I mean it's not like ya'all are EVER gonna come-back to visit us Yank PT's Fans again huh??).....

Back to PT's Drumming....Along with Skip's playin' on the 'Silk Torpedo' tracks.....Now 'acknowledged' Povey's 'Alexander' rolls the other track that 'kills-it' for me Drum wise is the Drumming on ''You'll Never Do it Baby' from the Second Album....now I realize it was before you were in the fold....but always wondered who (ie: Viv', Skip or Bobbie Graham) provided the BRILLIANT Roll bangin' on that one if you could shed some Light etc??.....

We Also LOVED 'Re-Born'.....WONDERFUL....what you did with production wise on 'Cries' (featuring Tolson's 'Dave Gilmour Moment' in the tracks last two minutes or so is Soulful & piercing as well as the 'Waves' of solo's on 'Grass' anyone....face it....the sound you got from him on the ENTIRE Album is Top-Shelf'!!)along with the expansions on 'the Trilogy', 'What's the Use' & 'Parachute' are simply KILLER!!......

Thanx Again....& w/apologies to 'Sergio' & GOOD ON YA Mr's Waller & Povey from the 'California Wills'(AMAZING Solo's from Dick Taylor on that one!!)....'Sunstroke' (Record & Track) was ACE also!!

ok....now off to sample those two EB' tracks you provided us.. .....Warm & HIGH Regards Wally ~EW

Entry 15 from 03.11.2013, 18:54

Name:Grey Defector
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Greatly enjoyed Wally's detailed explanations above throwing more light upon the murky Electric Banana projects. Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

I've always liked Povey's drumming... what I've seen and heard of it. There's that short 1969 b+w clip of the band freaking out onstage where Twink prances about whilst Povey takes over on the drumkit and his playing is much more solid proving he sure could bash those drums in fine style.

Actually, Twinks' antics in that clip makes me think the creators of Spinal Tap drew inspiration from the Pretties - Derek Smalls mouthing 'we love you' during the 'Flower People' clip and then the keyboardist called Viv Savage... Viv Prince and Savage Eye references?

Entry 16 from 04.11.2013, 02:07

Name:Sergio
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I knew it !!!

Entry 17 from 06.11.2013, 01:02

Name:Eric
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:No 'apology accepted' Sergio??....(jus' messin' w/ya)....& keep in mind Wally still has not confirmed whether Twink played the rolls on 'Alexander' from Debarge#1 or if it was 'Sir' Jon again??....
& giving a bit more evidence to my train of thought that it was ALL twink in the first place (& thanx to Grey Defectors post).....when Povey (as Barefoot Shaman under the influence of 'Magic Senses') wanders up to Twinks kit in the Vid' clip (referred to as 'I See Fuzz')he looks to release the Spirits/Demons with the 'Cross Stix'....& when they start to play together (jus' before 'Mime-Time' for our NOW Muslim Brother Alder....)....JP' is a Bashin' the Shite out of the Skins....while Twink supplies THE ROLLS!!.....jus' sayin'....ALL BRILLIANT REGARDLESS....

For those following....Click Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeCJaoytt0Q ~EW

Entry 18 from 06.11.2013, 23:15

Name:Wally Waller
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:OK Round 2

Although Jon was a consumate drummer, he was never overly concerned with too much 'fiddling and farting about' - with rolls and stuff (contrary to what can be heard on the intro to 'Alexander'). He seemed to get more pleasure in simply 'laying it down' good and thick, straight down the middle, and rock solid. You've got to remember that when Jon and I started playing, nobody had even dreamed about monitor systems. You just pumped it out as loud as you could, and however much of it found it's way back to the stage was in the lap of the gods. There were times when you couldn't hear what was happening on the other side of the stage, and as for hearing the vocals - that was fantasy la-la-land. What every band needed in those days was a drummer that could hold it all together. You just had to keep the arrangement in your head, and keep time with the kit - it was a pretty tough apprenticeship in those days, and I think Jon's uncompromising style on the drums owed a lot to our early musical experiences. Generally speaking, his drumming wasn't too flowery - but it certainly was a driving beat that was well punctuated where it needed to be.

When we started making records at 'Decca', our producer (Peter Sullivan) was a great fan of keeping things simple, so that suited us just fine. Not too much survives from the Fenmen's live shows, but here is a clip from 'The Cavern' in 1964, it's a little belter from Chuck berry called 'Talkin' 'Bout You', and I think it illustrates my point well enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYcnM6O6Vis

If you want to know anymore about The Fenmen, Mike Stax wrote a well researched in depth article about the rise and fall of the Fenmen, (right up to the time Jon and I left to join the Pretty Things) the best I've ever seen anyway in Ugly Things No. 29. He also released a CD 'Sunstroke' by the Fenmen - UTCD-2208) of long forgotten nuggets that he unearthed + Jon and I did some new stuff calling ourselves The Bexley Brothers, with even some very neat solo work from none other than Dick Taylor.

So you want to know who played the drums on the Philippe Debarge recordings. Was it Jon, or was it Twink? Well, the simple answer is - they both did. I'll go into a little more detail, or at least, as much as memory permits.

When we started the sessions, it was Twink on the stool. But later on Jon played on some tracks too. I don't remember exactly who played on every track - maybe Jon can remember more. I'm guessing that it's Twink on 'Alexander', as Povey's signature start is not there. Once we started mixing, I wasn't altogether happy with all the drum parts, and on some tracks I actually added Jon playing another top kit over the top of what Twink had already recorded. 'New Day' was a good example of this. Basically Twink had more or less played the 'off beat' (beats 2 and 4 in the bar) all the way through, but it was obvious to me that changes were needed in the drum patterns. It needed to go into 'fours' (playing every beat in the bar 1, 2, 3 and 4) in places, especially in the solo, and other patterns needed to be introduced in the choruses. Well, Jon was standing next to me, and there was a kit in the studio, and Jon and I had a musical understanding which went back several years even then (and that not only included our harmony singing), and he understood what to do immediately.

There were other tracks that were originally recorded without drums - with 'All Gone Now' Jon over-dubbed a bass-drum, and made a hi-hat sound vocally. On 'Peace' Jon overdubbed the entire kit, and a good job he made of it too. So as you can see there is no simple answer.

For those of you who like the Debarge album, did you realise there was a second Debarge album recorded in 1974, and released in France in 1975? The only trouble is, how's your French? That's right it's a French language album. The personel on the album are Philippe (obviously), myself, Pete Tolson, Gordon Edwards and Skip Alan. When we'd finished the recording, that's when Philippe asked me to form a band of British musicians and live in France all expenses paid, so he could live the dream. When he said we're gonna be based in Biarritz, that clinched it for me. As The Pretty Things, we'd spent possibly the most enjoyable two weeks of our lives in Biarritz 1968. Our exploits from that trip had entered into the local folk lore, and ensured that I was treated like a lord if I ever went back. I lived there for about 18 months. It was bliss, but I had to get back to reality Why? I'm not sure now, it just seemed like it didn't have my finger on the pulse anymore. Decisions, decisions life is full of forks in the road we'll never know will we.

Entry 19 from 09.11.2013, 23:55

Name:Brigadier Strangeways
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:Thats Great from Wally. Fascinating stuff !!

Entry 20 from 10.11.2013, 02:41

Name:Eric
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:'Life is Good and the Sun is Bright' (Alan Waller-Debarge#1 Sessions circa 1969)......

Entry 21 from 10.11.2013, 14:12

Name:Wally Waller
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I don't usually regard this forum as a conduit for personal messages, but I would just like to say a huge thank you, (on behalf of all of us guys under the 'Pretty Things Umbrella'), to Eric for being such a good vibe through the years. Your support has not gone un-noticed.

Yes, I remember New York 2001 and although I concede that the likelihood of us coming back to the US is extremely remote - never say never - stranger things have happened.

Entry 22 from 11.11.2013, 04:00

Name:EW
Theme:Re: Street Girl / Rebel Rebel
Message:I cannot tell you what that means to me Wally!!.....coming from you guys well....THANX SO MUCH!!....REALLY Special!!.....& as you & I (& I'm SURE many of the fellow 'threaders' here!!) love ALL THINGS 'Beatles'....I'll refer to a scene from the wonderful 'Help' flick (in the scene where McCartney & the LOVELY Eleanor Bron tell each other....)'I Shall Say NO MORE' CHEERS to & for the ENTIRE PT's 'Family'~EW

ps: if/when....the first round is on Me!!......